14 froob enfo twink?

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Re: 14 froob enfo twink?

Post by reids » Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:22 am

Goldberg is correct. Your alpha won't be big enough to kill the trader before he has you double drained (as goldberg said, with the NCU traders can get, it means they can get mochams and ladder drains, it's pretty much impossible to get enough NR to resist predrains at level 14. Even with the first rage.
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Re: 14 froob enfo twink?

Post by Martialenfo » Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:16 pm

Actually.. In a good tower setup at 14 fr00b could get around 550+ NR with rage, 410 without.. Way more than capable of resisting even the 100% check drain with rage and 190% without. I wouldnt really make it though.. Full DEF on the slow weapons enf has is kind of redundant . If anything id use crat or MP but thats besides the point.

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Re: 14 froob enfo twink?

Post by rayje » Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:02 am

Goldberg wrote:i've probably done more towers then you during the last 5 years :oops: and i can tell you this : level 14 enf simply lacks ncu to stack enough buffs to deal with a trader... at those levels it only boils down to ncus and that's it. (unless you count clueless players to defend their towers or ninjaing towers at dead ours)
as for an engi, pop the highest possible pet (perfected gladiatorbot is doable at 14) so the pet will kill the tower fast enough before defenders showing up, faster then an enfo thats for sure. (instead of AS weapon, maybe a red line + Sol-k combo will add some nice dmg there too)
but gl with your enfo in towers, just hope you it wont show-up in our tower fields. :wink:
sorry but somehow i doubt that claim, and the discussion is irrelevant anyway.
enfos don't need much more than gsf, hot, and BT to take out a trader, so "not enough ncu" is an invalid claim (not to mention for all the ncu that traders can get, more of it is taken up with high lvl drains and mochs than they actually get to use for buffs).
of course you're probably going to next tell me that there are no enfos winning towers at that lvl (which is blatantly false) or killing traders their lvl (also as false).

sure, an engi with a high lvl pet will do better damage than an enfo at that lvl, but if someone actually shows up to defend and an engi gets attacked by an enfo (can kill faster than your pet can), or he gets drained (the pet instantly stops attacking) he will be dead no matter what... and if there is anyone online to defend the field at all, they will be there quickly enough to kill the engi before the CT even drops below 1/2 way (lol). all i'm trying to say is an engineer is a glass cannon, they have a big hard hitting pet but if anyone sneezes on them they die.

only person i have seen pull off an engi in lowbie towers is petmania, and he needed to have 10+ of them multi logged and attacking simultaneously to accomplish the win... even then i've seen people come very close to stopping that onslaught by killing almost all the engineers...such toons can't actually take defenders because the bot won't kill them before the engi is dead which is why he just hid them all and let the bots rip the field apart.
reids wrote:Goldberg is correct. Your alpha won't be big enough to kill the trader before he has you double drained (as goldberg said, with the NCU traders can get, it means they can get mochams and ladder drains, it's pretty much impossible to get enough NR to resist predrains at level 14. Even with the first rage.
the alpha all depends on the weapon though :P
you sure? i think one would only get off the first drain (which would make it harder to finish them) but i don't see both. i know they'll be able to get you drained (as stated it's theoretically possible to resist), i never said enfos were guaranteed to kill a trader but i still stand firm that they're the only proff that has a chance at this lvl range. with good enough damage, and maybe even a buff for some more i see enfo being able to *possibly* alpha a trader. i can't think of any other proff that will have enough damage or live long enough to accomplish that...
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Re: 14 froob enfo twink?

Post by Goldberg » Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:58 am

u wont kill a trader who has hnq,behe & rffe running regardless to your nr..which wont stop deprive/divest from landing anyway (and thats all a trader needs to kill you), but what do i know... :roll:

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Re: 14 froob enfo twink?

Post by Martialenfo » Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:16 pm

Gold.. The problem isn't the amount of buffs an enf can get, its the fact that all the powerful weapons that are even capable of ODing HnQ (The buff which officially breaks low towers), cannot do so on Full DEF, where you are capable of countering drains (maybe with flurry).. So you have the choice of resist drains, or OD HnQ.. But i would suggest going 20+ for a 5 slot and NR rings if youre going towers with anything other than trad. Crat is much better DD than engi, charm 2 MP pets + high bot .. Don't see the point in choosing engi at all before blockers.

Realistically, an enf should NEVER beat a good trader that has HnQ running. Without, you have a chance. Enf is definately NOT the best against OBd traders untill CoH weaps as fr00b or tiigs as expansions. Pet profs are the best at the lowest levels due to the ability to go full DEF and supply damage that ODs HnQ (that or sneak).

A good trader will have atleast 1.5k hp in the range of a 14. You won't alpha that without full auto or gumboils at this level. You have to wear them down. You may alpha a trader without Behe/omni med/RRFE that has nerfed hp. Or wear down one without HnQ over 30 secs-1min. It all depends on what buffs they turn up with. Good trader, buffed properly, you don't have a prayer on a 14 enf :P, sorry..

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Re: 14 froob enfo twink?

Post by jato » Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:29 am

rayje wrote:
sure, an engi with a high lvl pet will do better damage than an enfo at that lvl, but if someone actually shows up to defend and an engi gets attacked by an enfo (can kill faster than your pet can), or he gets drained (the pet instantly stops attacking) he will be dead no matter what...
A slight side question but:

Normally when your pet goes OE he will finish killing whatever it was attacking before stopping fighting. Does this still apply at tower sites (or in PvP in general, as I have no idea)?

Was just thinking that if it didn't stop instantly, it could perhaps lead to interesting hit and run tactics.
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Re: 14 froob enfo twink?

Post by rayje » Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:28 am

jato wrote:
rayje wrote:
sure, an engi with a high lvl pet will do better damage than an enfo at that lvl, but if someone actually shows up to defend and an engi gets attacked by an enfo (can kill faster than your pet can), or he gets drained (the pet instantly stops attacking) he will be dead no matter what...
A slight side question but:

Normally when your pet goes OE he will finish killing whatever it was attacking before stopping fighting. Does this still apply at tower sites (or in PvP in general, as I have no idea)?

Was just thinking that if it didn't stop instantly, it could perhaps lead to interesting hit and run tactics.
if that is the case, then certainly a pet proff would be alot better for this lvl... regardless, this project is officially abandoned... thanks everyone for participating.
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"to really live, you must first be truly ready to die"
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<(-'.'-)> Q(-'.'-Q) <(-'.'-<) (>-'.'-)> O==(-.-Q) t(-'.'-t)
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