Froob PVP Tournament *Coming Soon*

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Froob PVP Tournament *Coming Soon*

Post by lpx » Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:03 am

I've noticed a willingness to duel on froobchat and decided we should have a pvp tournament.

I wanted to iron out some details before we have it though so im looking for feed back.
This is not the announcement of the tournament this is feeler thread to help me nail down details.

Summery:
Entry Fee: 5ml Credits (Winner takes all)
Level Range: 160-200
Tournament Type: Round Robin??
Contestants: 24?
Match Time: 5mins (Draw if Exceed)
Must be registered on froobchat (ingame)
Must be Froob (Obviously) Im going to see if I can get a orgmate to do "SL" checks via nano
Alts: Not sure if should allow alts, My gut says no but ultimately how can you stop it?
.. Perhaps test each combatant by making them simultaneously do 2 different tasks? need advice on this.
Location: TBD

There is some problems however.
#1 is the tournament type, Round Robin I think gives the more accurate results, If you loose a match it's not the end
Every one fights everyone else and the winner is the one with the best record.
Obvious problems with this is the time it takes, 24 players in round robin @ 5 mins a match would take 24 hours to complete! YIKES!
So the choice then becomes:
1. Move to single/double elimination which I don't think is as fair,
2. Limit fighters to a lower number say 8-12.
3. Hold the tournament over a series of days, perhaps a weekened or maybe several weekends, In which case the entry fee should probably be increased to reflect the increased length of time of the tournament, longer tournament bigger reward, but anything over 5ml might hold some people back, you also run into scheduling problems.
4. Hold the matches simultaneously.. this will greatly speed up the tournament time table However It means i'll need people I can trust to
Ref the matches, Also I'd like to invite spectators to come watch and this means they'll have to pick and choose the matches they want to watch.

Single/double Elimination can happen very quickly, But that means one loss and you're done, Which let's face it the pvp system is not great in AO and certain profession match ups would be very unfair, So I really would like to stick with round robin.

Help Wanted:
I of course will need helpers, I don't think I can do this alone the way I want to, I want this to be formal and organized.

a Paid who can do "SL" nano check's for non-forobs (Im gonna try to get a org mate to fill this role)

It would be great if someone would like to be an official commentator(s) it would be great to have 1 or 2 people calling the matches
this might be a problem if we hold more then one at at time, not necessary just a nice touch.
I thought maybe one of the GSP DJ's but I don't know what's going on with them since I returned a month ago they never seem to have live DJ's anymore.

Camera man, Perhaps we could capture the fights and upload them., Would need to be someone who has a smooth running AO, I Do not, also either someone willing to send me the videos or willing to edit and upload to youtube, if we have more then one match going on at a time we will need more then 1 camera man and we'll have to consolidate the videos, cameraman(Men) aren't necessary but thought it might be nice, you'll need to run with a clean GUI (no gui actually)

Warper and assistant (assistant teams with warper and hangs out in Borealis for anyone wanting to come watch)

Location:
Lastly we have location.
Obvious choice would be arena but to easy to interfere with matches, at a minimum I would need to get some bad a** 220's to play bouncer.
So 75% gas area seems like a better choice where we can just use the /duel system.

But what sort of area? Well obviously we don't want TO many mobs hanging around a few we can take care of but we don't want a bunch to deal with.

I completely by accident found a lovely stretch of land in a far corner of the map it's very flat, and no mobs
But some players may want to take advantage of the terrain, so what kind of setting would people like to fight in?
flat desert? urban? hilly? perhaps a large roof top? tower field? (Obviously out of range so it won't agg)
I know many duels are nothing more then slug matches but Im thinking if credz and pride are on the line people might want to be more strategic and move around.

I need feedback, is the entry fee to high? to low? what would be a good day and time OR days and time to schedule?
What about level range? I wanted to include a few level ranges however given time it doesn't seem practical to try and run 2-3 simultaneous tournaments, 160-200 represents the end game for froobs so it seems like the logical range to pick if you can have only one.
If this is successful I'd like to have it on a regular basis and perhaps add team matches or 3 way's
Give me all your feed back, Even if it's to say "yah that looks great i'll want to join", This will be my first tournament but I think it will be fun, Im sure there is something Im overlooking.
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Re: Froob PVP Tournamnet *Coming Soon*

Post by Lusto » Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:14 pm

Perhaps you can organize a series of four tournaments, three first as (free-to-enter) double elimination where finalists gains entry to the last one. This will give you up to 6 participants for the final tournament. You can fill the fourth one further by inviting some outstanding fighters.

Location: With duels you can do it anywhere, without duels you can use Tir Arena, Omni-Ent Arena or Battlestation "Arena".
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Re: Froob PVP Tournamnet *Coming Soon*

Post by Briandmg » Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:58 am

Would just like to add:

/duels would nerf enfos, crats, and especially MAs. The fear stun is enough to determine whether a MA will win against a doc or not.
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Re: Froob PVP Tournamnet *Coming Soon*

Post by lpx » Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:26 am

Thanks for the feed back, Yes the fear nanos are a buncha BS, I could see scrambling the movement controls but it makes your toon do all sorts of weird stuff without any input at all which I think is BS.

But this is the system we have currently..

Someone on froobchat has suggested that we should use an Arena because some would not be willing to risk duel losses.
Frankly I hadn't thought of that and while I find it pretty vain I know there are people like that out there.

But the Arena has issues.

1. I'll need a few 220 "bouncers" in-case people designed to disrupt, and what do we do if someone does? restart the match?
.. Someone could have buddies disrupt a fight if they're going to loose causing the match to be re fought.
2. we can not have more then one fight at a time (if we find it necessary due to time if we get a lot of fighters), Although I suppose we could use more then 1 arena.
3. space, Arenas are not that large iirc, I will go check them out since I've not been to one in years but IIRC they are at most 40m wide.
Some professions depend on range, I never understood why you see people standing in one spot trading blows but i'll assume if money and pride is on the line people will want to do more then just stand there.

As for the tournament style someone on froob chat suggested a hybrid round robin / single elimination system.
where we break off into groups of say 6, do round robin and then the winners of each group move on to a single elimination finals.
This would save time however I hesitate to do anything with single elimination in it because of the unbalanced system we have.
I think RR offers the most fair outcome, I also forgot previously in my post we'll need to deal with OSB's

I want this tournament to be as FAIR as it possibly can.
I want it to be organized and I want it formal.

The problem with OSB's means we may need to eliminate public crowds as much as I hate to do so It's to easy for people to start buffing the fighters up.
That would also mean private location (which I think I have a good one in mind), Everyone saving in bor /terminating and then being watched for buff exchanges.

I know this sounds kind drastic but I want this to be more then just a casual gathering I want there to be some order and I want all the fighters to feel win or loose that they had a fair shot.


Please keep feedback coming if you think im going to far let me know, if you think im not going far enough let me know that as well.
It's becoming obvious Im going to need a lot more help to pull this off then I originally thought.
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Re: Froob PVP Tournamnet *Coming Soon*

Post by Lusto » Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:07 am

I would drop those bouncers, terminates and others. You got to trust your people until something happens. And then if they don't have that much respect for you, you can quit organizing the event. I never had any problems on my tournaments.

At least Omni-Ent Arena has plenty of space to kite. Riffle users standing in the middle can hit pretty much everything but other ranged users will have problems. There is also the fun little pilar in the middle for all kind of maneuvers. In Battlestation zone you have more than enough space.

On OP nanos I would be careful, by default it is better to do nothing unless something is disrupting the tournament. There are plenty of broken things that I would rather not have - but only ones worth denying IMO are Nanite Drains and Trader pre-draining. Personally I hate the Fixer wakeup call, Trader crit buff among others but I never bothered to ban them.

I would not use duels, they have too many little rules that can fail things.
Lusto (level 200 doc) Lostu (level 200 adv) Losto (level 200 MP) Lustu (level 199 Soldier)
Lyrangitus (level 100 Trader) Lyran (level 74 Agent) Lyrangitis (level 25 Doctor)
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Re: Froob PVP Tournamnet *Coming Soon*

Post by lpx » Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:32 am

Lusto wrote:I would drop those bouncers, terminates and others. You got to trust your people until something happens. And then if they don't have that much respect for you, you can quit organizing the event. I never had any problems on my tournaments.
The problem is how will you know if someones usbing OSB? lot of times it would be hard to prove.

Maybe you could give me a quick run down of how you conducted your tournaments, rules, etc give me something to go off of.
Lusto wrote:On OP nanos I would be careful, by default it is better to do nothing unless something is disrupting the tournament. There are plenty of broken things that I would rather not have - but only ones worth denying IMO are Nanite Drains and Trader pre-draining. Personally I hate the Fixer wakeup call, Trader crit buff among others but I never bothered to ban them.

I would not use duels, they have too many little rules that can fail things.
I have no plans to ban any particular nano or practice.

What's wrong with duels? perhaps you could expand on that?
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Re: Froob PVP Tournamnet *Coming Soon*

Post by Briandmg » Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:30 am

There's some hax way to actually see what nano programs any one has running at that point of time. I'm not sure how it's done, but I had someone successfully pull it off on me before. I had a superior HE running on my agent and he could tell (no kid!). I guess that's one way to go about the OSB thingy.
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Re: Froob PVP Tournamnet *Coming Soon*

Post by Hatty » Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:08 pm

Briandmg wrote:There's some hax way to actually see what nano programs any one has running at that point of time. I'm not sure how it's done, but I had someone successfully pull it off on me before. I had a superior HE running on my agent and he could tell (no kid!). I guess that's one way to go about the OSB thingy.
If he was a NT himself, or had an alt on standby, he could've tried casting a lower HE on you and would know you have one running when it says "Better nanoprogram running". Other than that, I can't really come up with an explanation.
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Re: Froob PVP Tournamnet *Coming Soon*

Post by Briandmg » Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:59 pm

No. I FPed a NT, I casted that on myself, then I allowed the FP to wear off before I approached him. He had a program that could tell the exact nano programs and its remaining duration on you, right down to the second. It was true blue hax.
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Re: Froob PVP Tournamnet *Coming Soon*

Post by Tazer » Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:16 pm

some of this you might have said but....

One thing lusto did that I liked was no nanite drains (-250) and that was nice because that big of a drain can shutdown someone

I know I have a 200 agent that tends to afk in sneak.....maybe limit that?
I think past the radar in bori there is a big flat area but maybe nts will abuse it?
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Re: Froob PVP Tournamnet *Coming Soon*

Post by lpx » Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:58 am

Well I did'nt have any plans to ban any specific nanos or tactics, I wouldn't want to limit peoples tool sets.

Yes trader drains hurt, no doubt about that, But how can it be fair to limit the top drain?


As for location it seems pretty clear everyone wants arena, and no duals, So It looks like Omni Ent Arena will be the location.
I went out to tir and if we need to break down into groups for time we could also use it but I Like the Omni Arena better.
We could of course get warps for Clan, but there are few if any guards from grid exit to the arena so probably not necessary.


I still need feedback on day and time, My first thought would be a saturday or sunday around 5pm eastern.
and how much time would people be willing to devote to it?

I would like to do round robin but if we get more then a handful of people it will take to long unless we break down into groups and have simultaneous fights.
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Re: Froob PVP Tournamnet *Coming Soon*

Post by Matammyr » Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:40 am

lpx wrote:Yes trader drains hurt, no doubt about that, But how can it be fair to limit the top drain?
I think even the expansions players ban nanite drains in their TL5 tournaments. They're just too ridiculously powerful. Certain rules have to be in place to make it a competitive event, and this is one of them.

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Re: Froob PVP Tournamnet *Coming Soon*

Post by Lusto » Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:12 am

Main problem with nanite drains are: 1) lowered NR check, 2) faster casting and 3) addoff debuf. Just 50 points bigger drain would not be issue. Trader will have hard time landing the second drain on NR enabled toon, and everyone can be expected to be able to fight with one non-nanote drain running. Really if you don't ban nanites, nobody can expect to win a trader and nobody wants to join the event. And even with nanites banned traders are most likely to win the tournament so they can take little nerf stick.

Regarding the schedule don't expect anyone to give you opinions on that. Basically you just fix the time and date and hope that people will come. For the first event you need to do some advertising by bugging all your friends to join, spamming it on bot and in here and perhaps even on public channels. After people learn about the event it gets easy. Then they start to bug you about the date. Never schedule or reschedule based on someones request. Just choose the date you think is best and stick to it.

My format was to have two part event: first knockout or double-knockout tournament (or round robin if only few participants) and second was all against all fight.

If I were to organize more tournaments I would not have one-to-one part at all, it would be team fights all the way with possible mass fight in the end.
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Re: Froob PVP Tournamnet *Coming Soon*

Post by smileocho » Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:35 am

count me in if this ever gets going.
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Re: Froob PVP Tournamnet *Coming Soon*

Post by rsz » Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:21 am

Personally I don't care about nanites, but pre-drain should be banned for sure.

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