Lvl 25 pvp twink

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GDB2222
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Lvl 25 pvp twink

Post by GDB2222 » Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:26 am

I'm just looking for what will be the most successful froob pvp twink at lvl 25? I'm thinking noob rod, although I can see some advantages of ranged weapons. If you went for the noob rod, which breed would you think is best?
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Briandmg
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Re: Lvl 25 pvp twink

Post by Briandmg » Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:43 pm

Lvl 25 Trader pvp twinks are the most common and yes, almost all L25 traders use noob rods, probably because it is without doubt the best weapon at that level. A trox would be a good choice to squeeze out those extra points of health for an edge over your opponent. If you're thinking of going into towers, however, you might face a bit of a problem because of the low nano pool troxes have. Mochamed pre-drained drains takes up a load of nano, not to mention that you'll probably be unable to cast shutdown skills followed by 2 drains. In towers, the person who gets the first drain in usually wins so the more drains you can cast, the more uber you'll be. In that case, the extra hitpoints as a trox is immaterial as the person who drains most wins. You might want to go opifex or solitus instead, although that would also mean a lower QL of implants in your final setup.
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Re: Lvl 25 pvp twink

Post by Hatty » Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:33 pm

Briandmg wrote:Lvl 25 Trader pvp twinks are the most common and yes, almost all L25 traders use noob rods, probably because it is without doubt the best weapon at that level. A trox would be a good choice to squeeze out those extra points of health for an edge over your opponent. If you're thinking of going into towers, however, you might face a bit of a problem because of the low nano pool troxes have. Mochamed pre-drained drains takes up a load of nano, not to mention that you'll probably be unable to cast shutdown skills followed by 2 drains. In towers, the person who gets the first drain in usually wins so the more drains you can cast, the more uber you'll be. In that case, the extra hitpoints as a trox is immaterial as the person who drains most wins. You might want to go opifex or solitus instead, although that would also mean a lower QL of implants in your final setup.
Pretty much what he said.

Make sure you take a look at kizzers, they are a deadly addition to your arsenal and most people do not even consider them for a tl2 froob (however ridiculous that may sound). The difference between winning and losing could rely on them.

It would be useful to know what kind of pvp you're looking at too.
Twinks:

Theumbrage - 100 Evade Agent (with no damage!) - [Setup]
Payments - 76 PvP Focused Trader - [Setup]
Temples - 60 ToTW Twink, Solo Aztur without hiding - [Setup]
Nubstick - 25 Half-arsed Nanomage NR Enfo - [Setup]

Non-Twinks:

Hattyssold - 200 Atrox Soldier - [Setup]
Ulovemyheals - 200 Nanomage Doctor - [Setup]

Froob powah!

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Re: Lvl 25 pvp twink

Post by GDB2222 » Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:36 am

Ah, sorry, should have said -- tower defence.

I was thinking of nanomage, actually, but it sounds like you are not in favour? Nanomage for extra nano, and also because of the twinking benefit of shades of lucubration.
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Re: Lvl 25 pvp twink

Post by Hatty » Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:18 am

Ok, for tower defence, lets take a look. In tower defence, you will want as many osb's as you can grab, and so will everyone else. This means that if you want to kill someone, you would need to OD HnQ (which a neleb rod can do(

Many people in that range will be enfos and traders, with some agents, mps and fixers (in my experience).


The following tactics are NOT guidelines or rules. They are just what I imagine the scenario to be, which is probably inaccurate because I don't have a tl2 trader.


Enfos - Froob enfos should be no problem. Even NR enfos shouldn't pose a threat if you're grabbing OSBs. However, you would probably struggle against paid enfos. Dual mortiig beaters have been done at 27 (I'm not sure who/which server) which is in your range. As I have no experience here, I will not offer much advice, other than use kizzers as often as possible. It will take away a large portion of their huge hp.

*SECRET* As a trader, your top root should not be breakable with a typical tl2 rage. Keep that in mind when you are facing a enfo you think you cannot defeat. As a froob, you shouldn't be ashamed to root those monsters :P

Agents - No experience.

Mps - Try to drain them before they set their pets on you. (Don't quote me on this) If you drain them before they command their pets, they will be unable to command them. However, if you drain them after the pets are attacking you, they will continue to attack you. Most Mps in this range are set up with a shield, but after draining, that shield would be close to useless. Kill the healpet if you can't OD it.

Fixers - Should be relatively easy. Most in this range are in GA1. Drain their GA1 oe and you shouldn't have much issues with them.

Traders - Make sure you have your top 8 drains on your hotbar. With mochams running, even when drained first, you should still be able to use a low drain on them. This will surprise them and the average trader would not be ready for it. They will probably panic wondering why they can't cast their next drain. If you came predrained, your neleb's rod should still be 100%. Use the totw blind ring for extra panic and totw pads if you feel like you need that extra edge.

Please remember that these are just made-up scenarios and are only what I would do when faced with such an opponent.

Remember to use Health Hagglers when needed, but don't kill yourself using them :3 (I've done it a few times)


As for breed, it's all up to you. If you went nanomage, you could still get some hp from Stinging Snake Tattoos. In the end, with so much versatility, a trader would only die because they ran out of nano. I would stay away from trox though. The low nanopool only means bad news in tower defence.
Twinks:

Theumbrage - 100 Evade Agent (with no damage!) - [Setup]
Payments - 76 PvP Focused Trader - [Setup]
Temples - 60 ToTW Twink, Solo Aztur without hiding - [Setup]
Nubstick - 25 Half-arsed Nanomage NR Enfo - [Setup]

Non-Twinks:

Hattyssold - 200 Atrox Soldier - [Setup]
Ulovemyheals - 200 Nanomage Doctor - [Setup]

Froob powah!

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Re: Lvl 25 pvp twink

Post by Briandmg » Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:05 am

I would recommend against going nanomage as well. The rule for tower wars at that level is that the person who gets the drain in first wins (sadly). This means that you must survive the other person long enough for your drain to land (about 2-3s if he doesn't resist, 10s if he does). You need the health to survive those 10s, and behemoth/corruscating screen/gargantuan health might not be enough.
Hatty wrote: Mps - Try to drain them before they set their pets on you. (Don't quote me on this) If you drain them before they command their pets, they will be unable to command them. However, if you drain them after the pets are attacking you, they will continue to attack you. Most Mps in this range are set up with a shield, but after draining, that shield would be close to useless. Kill the healpet if you can't OD it.
Naw, if you drain a MP while his pets are set to attack you, they just stone around and do nothing. Don't worry though, MPs are very weak in PvP at L25. =P
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Re: Lvl 25 pvp twink

Post by Martialenfo » Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:00 am

MPs are NOT weak at lvl 25.. They can seriously cause a problem. Pets DO still attack you if set to attack before getting drained and NOT recieving another command after doing so. They can get 500-600 NR and similar evade + 150 Add all defence (180 add all defence with expansions).

The reason they are some of the most deadly against traders is this.. They can sit on full DEF with basically no loss of damage. Gaining the huge bonus of how effective evades/NR are while doing so. This means they deal more damage than enforcers even while drained, are much harder to root/drain in the first place then they can debuff your nano skills themselves with unmakes/debuff nukes and incompitences and with HoT + healpet + RS good luck staying in range long enough to kill them with only fast attack.

People serously overrate traders even at towers. Sure, they are the EASIEST to make and do well. However they are not the ONLY viable option.

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Re: Lvl 25 pvp twink

Post by Goldberg » Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:18 pm

NM, Nerfstick, NCUs - nuff said
(and to make up for the lack of HP you use the snake tatts {which i forgotten the name of})

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Re: Lvl 25 pvp twink

Post by Briandmg » Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:34 am

Martialenfo wrote:MPs are NOT weak at lvl 25.. They can seriously cause a problem. Pets DO still attack you if set to attack before getting drained and NOT recieving another command after doing so. They can get 500-600 NR and similar evade + 150 Add all defence (180 add all defence with expansions).

The reason they are some of the most deadly against traders is this.. They can sit on full DEF with basically no loss of damage. Gaining the huge bonus of how effective evades/NR are while doing so. This means they deal more damage than enforcers even while drained, are much harder to root/drain in the first place then they can debuff your nano skills themselves with unmakes/debuff nukes and incompitences and with HoT + healpet + RS good luck staying in range long enough to kill them with only fast attack.

People serously overrate traders even at towers. Sure, they are the EASIEST to make and do well. However they are not the ONLY viable option.
I have to disagree with this notion. Yes, I did the calcs with conservative estimates and it is easy to hit up to 560+ NR with a base NR of 120 (L25 nanomage MP), with INR (+142) and this setup:
http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=182162" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Probably forgot a number of things as well that can boost this all the way up to 600 NR.

Lets assume as well that you got +150 AAD and you are at perma full def. You land a mind howl and an unmake that reduces the trader's drain skills by 113 points. He has absolutely no chance in draining you in the first 5 attempts.

The thing now is that all the trader has to do is cast an AOE root and your pets are effectively dead. Lowest pet deroot is level locked to 75. Meatballs even at high levels have considerably low NR, so even if the trader can't touch you, your pets have no chance against chain rooting. Use x2 graft roots on him and hope your pets will pummel him to death? 2 stims are all it takes to remove them, so unless you can kill a trader with behe and HoT in 10s, the technique is unlikely to work. Resummon pets? Takes 10s on full def, and the trader will take only a few to root them again. Stick close to your meatballs so that the trader can't come near to kill you? No problem, because a good trader will break the root off your meatballs, kite them off, and reroot. He will only need to fight you + 1 other meatball at any point of time. Trader has troubles killing you because of evades, healpet and HnQ? Unlikely. Kizzers still work with nano debuffs, and a L25 trader tower twink with predrains will have sufficient AR to hit you sufficiently to counter out HnQ. Even if he can't hit you, he can hit your healpet, and 1 drain (even if it takes over a minute to land) is all it takes to prevent you from resummoning that healpet.

The fact is traders have an unfair NCU advantage at that level and that is what makes or breaks lowbie PvP. A MP cannot possibly have enough NCU to have an insanely high NR, evades, use unmake, and have behe, HnQ, GSF all at the same time. My judgement (and you may disagree with this) is that you more or less need all of the above mentioned buffs to stand a chance at beating a tower trader. I don't like it either but ultimately, traders are overpowered in lowbie tower wars and there are hardly any other viable options at that level.
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All you ever needed to know to make your L200 froob toon a beast in PvP. :P

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Re: Lvl 25 pvp twink

Post by Martialenfo » Wed May 30, 2012 2:11 pm

Necro bump. However I have made a 25 MP before and if you buff up to a high pet and debuff traders nanoskills they find it hard to root your pet and I have beaten quite a few traders with this setup. All you need to survive is: HnQ/GSF/NR buff that is ALL. Low hp works fine on an MP and most of the time is the best option. To do damage, MC/TS mochams. Getting unmakes then requires 260-300 NCU as fr00b. Either way you can certainly have an MP that holds it's own if you work at it a bit.

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