The trox NT

Will I make level 100 or give up?

Poll ended at Sun Dec 25, 2005 6:06 pm

I make level 100
6
55%
I give up this idea
5
45%
 
Total votes: 11

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hellscream
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Post by hellscream » Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:39 am

Sferykal wrote:
Tarradax wrote:Opi is it thanks to the evades.
I hear this statement often, yet fail to see the truth behind it. Afterall, your profession decides how much IP you have to spend into evades, and the final trickledown difference is like 10 to 20 points, depending whom you choose to compare with. That at evades of ~600. (base values at level 200, maxed, no implants, no buffs, no nothing). I doubt the difference will be actually visible, unless you play along and use a lot of evade-enhancing equipment (which you can use on the other races as well). To set it into relation: MAs have about 100...120 more in evades at that level under the same conditions, not to talk about they use up 500k IP less for having their evades maxed.
its because opi got lots of agility and sense ... and most evades got thier base skill as agility , hope that explains :)
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Post by Tarradax » Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:56 am

Sferykal wrote:
Tarradax wrote:Opi is it thanks to the evades.
I hear this statement often, yet fail to see the truth behind it. Afterall, your profession decides how much IP you have to spend into evades, and the final trickledown difference is like 10 to 20 points, depending whom you choose to compare with. That at evades of ~600. (base values at level 200, maxed, no implants, no buffs, no nothing). I doubt the difference will be actually visible, unless you play along and use a lot of evade-enhancing equipment (which you can use on the other races as well). To set it into relation: MAs have about 100...120 more in evades at that level under the same conditions, not to talk about they use up 500k IP less for having their evades maxed.
It's less noticable in the low-mid levels, when the "Starting edge" of the Opifex breed is translated into just a couple points into all evades. At level 200, an Opifex will have 64 more Agility & Intel more than an Atrox, and 112 more sense. This translated to alot more than just a few points into evades (With a 50/30/20 split between Agility/Sense/Intel to both EvadeClsC and DodgeRanged.)... This extra would mean even more to profs that don't have innate evade buffs, like NTs.
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Post by Sferykal » Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:54 am

64/4 + ~50/4/3 = ~20, so yes, just a few points compared to the possible max of about 600 points. I doubt you will increase your evades as much as an Atrox NT, because it gives you the opportunity to invest them elsewhere (or even have to). There are differences with the races, but the professions have a much harder grip on the outcome, because they regulate your IP investments. The races come into play with equipment (either direct by race specific equipment or indirect by ability requirements).

What do we get as a result?
  • Evades are IP heavy on a NT, so you will be careful increasing them. Infact, being Opifex can help you save some IPs there.
  • To get your evades up beyond the base skill you will need equipment. Being an Opifex can help you there, but what is the tradeoff in regard to your profession?
  • How much more evades do you need to have a visible impact of having higher evades?

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Post by Tarradax » Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:58 am

Sferykal wrote:How much more evades do you need to have a visible impact of having higher evades?
Well, depends on what's "Visible" effect... I doubt a NT will ever reach a point where he can evade as well as a fixer or MA, but if those extra 20 points allow you to cast one more nuke or refresh your layers once more, it might be the difference between XP and Reclaim.

EDIT: Random thought: What if you ignore evades entirely, and trust your runspeed to keep you far enough from the mobs? What breed then?
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Post by tweek » Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:31 am

thats why you choose atrox runspeed is something like 40/40 str/stam and you get more hp incase you do get hit by accident

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Post by Tarradax » Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:33 am

RS is 40/40/20 Agility/STA/STR, So this is definetly not a nanobreed thing.
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Post by wintermane » Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:49 am

The main game mechanic making nanomages not so great as nts is funcom muffed it with nts.

This exact same muff up has happened in other games and its very simple to explain.

At the start they bill the class as UBER DAMAGE. Uber damage using lots and lots of ( mystic/sci fi energy thimngies)..

But then the damage is either scaled back or never is uber and so the costs are scaled back and all of a sudden this IMPORTANT energy isnt all that important at all.



The fix is amazingly simple. Increase the damage levels of nt attacks and at the same time increase the cost. When most all nts are perking with alot of levels of nano perks and wearing nano enhancing imps and such.. your at the right spot. Until nts obsess about nano you know the balance is wrong.
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Post by Ferengi » Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:38 pm

Sferykal wrote:
Tarradax wrote:Opi is it thanks to the evades.
I hear this statement often, yet fail to see the truth behind it.
It's part of the marketing hype for the game, ignore the clones that repeat it thoughtlessly. There are only a couple differences between the breeds that are important:

** starting Ability values **
Soli gets no advantages here, the others get a boost that lasts thruout the game when same level breeds are compared. Percentage-wise, these values [opi agi=11, etc.] are important at the lower levels (<100), where the great majority of clones spend their time. So it's the prattle that passes amongst the clones as wisdom. The importance here fades with player level, unfortuately with SL, player level is not an indicator of ability anymore.

** Ability IP cost per point **
Clones think the only skills you should touch are green, those dark blue skills are veboten. So breed IP costs drive the abilities that are maxed, and the clones have opis with higher evades than their other breeds. Game nerds generally max all abilities and accept the costs as part of the tradeoff matrix for IP.

The breed caps are not really important at all. Chosing a breed should be based on the intended nanoskills or attack skills, or perhaps the armor plan when IP is short. My atrox NT generally runs weaker nanoskills due to the pool limit and the implants are focused around improving that pool usuage. My NM NT gets creamed indoors whenever it's not a 1-3 nuke kill (I need to try switching to calms faster). The differences make the game more challenging, but clones aren't into "challenge" at all.
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Post by Ferengi » Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:39 pm

hellscream wrote:its because opi got lots of agility and sense ... and most evades got thier base skill as agility , hope that explains :)
see what I mean?
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???

Post by Suusrmursu » Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:44 pm

So are you guys saying that nanomage breed is no good for any prof at all? :O I wouldn't know, I'm mostly solitus so far, but I just find it hard to understand that there's a breed that's all-round inferior to others...
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Post by Ferengi » Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:45 pm

Tarradax wrote:At level 200, an Opifex will have 64 more Agility & Intel more than an Atrox, and 112 more sense. This translated to alot more than just a few points into evades (With a 50/30/20 split between Agility/Sense/Intel to both EvadeClsC and DodgeRanged.)
Hehe. math not your strong point? prepare to get owned (in RL).

"64 more" at most there will be 64/4 = 16 points available to 100% trickledowns. For a 50% split, thats a incrediblely huge EIGHT points, compared to at least 600 points in any critical skill, 8 is about 1.4% Ability caps are meaningless, even if auno has a separate webpage for them.
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Re: ???

Post by Ferengi » Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:54 pm

Suusrmursu wrote:So are you guys saying that nanomage breed is no good for any prof at all? :O I wouldn't know, I'm mostly solitus so far, but I just find it hard to understand that there's a breed that's all-round inferior to others...
Solitis is 'all-around' inferior to the others: weaker gains in either HP or NP compared to the breed extremes, nanomage and atrox; and starting behind the opi in the clone "evades". Outside of Picsel, I haven't seen impressive solis....yet. I equate people defaulting to soli the same way I regard neutrals.
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point taken

Post by Suusrmursu » Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:20 pm

hmmeh...i understand all that, but what breed would you suggest for an engineer then, for example? So far I've seen quite a lot of basic solitus engis who seem to be doing ok..

Sorry about drifting from the topic, I'm just genuinely interested
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Post by Ilo » Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:30 pm

hmmeh...i understand all that, but what breed would you suggest for an engineer then, for example? So far I've seen quite a lot of basic solitus engis who seem to be doing ok..
Hehe I'm an opi engineer, just to be different from the rest ^^ And actually doing good too. :)
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Re: point taken

Post by Ferengi » Thu Jan 26, 2006 6:48 pm

Suusrmursu wrote:what breed would you suggest for an engineer then, for example?
{long reply eaten by miskey}

Don't expect to make the uber bot on the first character. I've had somewhere around 20-30 characters so far, only 6 survive today and only 2 profs are being played. I have 3 NTs, an original bufftoon and it's replacement, and now a nm crat. I don't know enough about engis to answer, but I simply suggest that you plan to have several characters all in different accouts.

Notice that this thread is about a trox NT, which I heavily played for a couple of weeks. Then I went back to the NM NT, and gained about 10 levels in a couple of days due to the better skills I'd picked up off the atrox experiment. So my suggestion is to make four engis, one of each breed, and swap amongst them. If you are after the uber bot owning some dungeon, you are going to need multiple characters and probably multiple builds anyway.
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