The trox NT

Will I make level 100 or give up?

Poll ended at Sun Dec 25, 2005 6:06 pm

I make level 100
6
55%
I give up this idea
5
45%
 
Total votes: 11

Ferengi
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Post by Ferengi » Tue Dec 20, 2005 5:34 am

Back from a 9 level run in the subway, I feel rather sure that the extra HP is important and there will not be a nano problem. With the trox HP (no implants yet either), I could use nano stims and ignore the 40 sec lockout, since my HP was not dropping like a nanomage. The worse that happened was that I needed to run _once_, in which case the maxed run speed saved me, despite being very low on HP. I also jumped up an AOE nano, after implanting 60 points of MC, to Poison Cloud. I had some nano problems for 3 levels, or about 20 minutes. I'd finish a mob pack about the same time as I ran out of nano, and then the leveling allowed better HE and the problem disappeared. It was a key difference to get the 130 MapNav in, and doing it at the last moment meant I got the max advantage out of 100% trickle-down.

Running out of nano is meaningless at the moment, I'd just run for awhile, but you do need to know where to run. So the mob pack gets to reheal, next time take a smaller bite. If you've read my other posts, I'm pretty convinced that evades are only useful when the mob is very near your level (but above it), and I've pointed out an easy test location for the unconvinced. I haven't missed them for a moment, and I'm sitting on 28000 IP points at lvl 23, while maxed in nanoskills, etc as mentioned above. I can implant ql 70 now, then spend a few points in CompLit to get a 4 deck belt in, then later jump up another 20 points in MC with new implants.

Sure, all breeds can implant, but you don't need more skill level than your highest nuke, FC designed the game to work without implanting -- or just using the prebuilts in the shop, anything that a simple solitus can get to, I can too. I won't mention how many dead solitus I saw during the run....

Messeka Where are your 'better' implants?? QL 200 is it, needs 404 stat points. Atrox only has 400 for some base stats, and that costs a whole 4 points out of 806 on something like Nano Pool, or 0.5% less. No, my NM NT never runs out of nano, but many times wishes he had twice the HP before waking up in reclaim. The real point behind the char was to get totally into the kiting tactical game, AOE means that I'm usually dealing with a group. AOE also meant that I was ODing small groups wanting to 'help me kill those mobs next to me'. They would get one, and I would get the rest.

Picsel A kiter is not suppose to get hit. Cannot imagine why you think 'more HP doesn't help'. When you have enough armor, the mob hits you for a minimum damage amount, roughly the mobs level. Basic math says more HP, more hits before you die.

On RK2, headed to Tir for awhile now. With this 28000 IP points, maybe I can make those regen stims after all. Or perhaps I can really pump up Pistol, or maybe I should max First Aid now too. I think I'll wait until I hit lvl 50, I remember too well trying to stretch IP from about 35-50. And then there is the tank armor I'm thinking about overtuning....

Thanks again Cartrox! Learned a lot thanks to your posts. =D>
Adios, thanks for the fish

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Post by Sferykal » Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:15 am

Some comments:
  • This poll is pretty much useless, how should I be able to say if you make it to 100 or not? Some people are so obsessed to make everything perfect, they hardly make it past 50 :P
  • I stopped running away, at least if it is my own fault. Maybe I've gotten lazy, but I'd rather stand my ground and die in all false glory than training others with the mess I started. Besides at level 9 you loose nothing. But that's a personal play style preference.
  • Everyone dies. You mentioned all the dead Solitus, but you forgot to mention who played these and how many Solitus are playing compared to other breeds. Statistics and their interpretations ...
  • You are in constant lack of IPs. If you think it gets better past 50 you are mistaken. Infact, the IP "hole" up to 50 is not even half that bad compared to what you will experience past 50. You will get true relief once you hit the TL 4 skillcap (level 125), until then happy IP saving :P
the mob hits you for a minimum damage amount, roughly the mobs level
Since I have my soldier with high ACs, I always check the damage I receive, and this "formula" just doesn't work. Some mobs hit me for like twice if not three times their level damage, others hit for half or even a third of their level damage. Funny thing is, latter ones may even have higher level than first ones ... so ... pfff ... "roughly" :P
A kiter is not suppose to get hit. Cannot imagine why you think 'more HP doesn't help'.
Paradoxon? If you are not supposed to get hit, getting damage means you did something wrong. Going for insane HP means you anticipate a lot of failures, which in return means you are not kiting (correctly). What do you need the HPs for now? *teases* :P


Anyway, have fun with your trox NT (and don't get hit too often)! :D

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Post by Picsel » Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:43 am

Ferengi wrote:Picsel A kiter is not suppose to get hit. Cannot imagine why you think 'more HP doesn't help'. When you have enough armor, the mob hits you for a minimum damage amount, roughly the mobs level. Basic math says more HP, more hits before you die.
I say, balance of hp and evades is good. Thats why I think Solitus is the best for NT. But for kiting, dont think there really is the best breed. Opifex is good because of evades and run speed, trox for hp and speed, nanomage for NT (as a froob, sometimes you need nano to finish the kite) and solitus balanced in everything.
Last edited by Picsel on Wed Dec 21, 2005 1:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Messeka » Tue Dec 20, 2005 2:23 pm

Ferengi wrote:Messeka Where are your 'better' implants?? QL 200 is it, needs 404 stat points. Atrox only has 400 for some base stats, and that costs a whole 4 points out of 806 on something like Nano Pool, or 0.5% less. No, my NM NT never runs out of nano, but many times wishes he had twice the HP before waking up in reclaim. The real point behind the char was to get totally into the kiting tactical game, AOE means that I'm usually dealing with a group. AOE also meant that I was ODing small groups wanting to 'help me kill those mobs next to me'. They would get one, and I would get the rest.
Wait... I was thinking ip instead of cap....

Well - with the same implants, before ql 200, Sol will have more ip to spend on other stuff, since they spend less on int and psy, no?
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Post by tweek » Tue Dec 20, 2005 2:33 pm

evades arent as important as you think i max them but when the mobs are 50 lvls higher then you it still hurts when u mess up

most important thing is runspeed which trox will have more of

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Post by Tyranii » Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:31 pm

If you're taking on Much higher level than you. type of mobs, you probably wont evade much/anything if you're not an evade prof with SL (<3 Acrobat perkline). Maybe a very rare hit, but it'll be extremely rare. Evades only protect you from not being critted, or not as much, if you cant evade the hits.

Kiting all that matters is: Damage, Speed, Absorbs/Reflects, HP, Heals/HoTs, and if you can - use Line of Sight to your advantage
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Post by Picsel » Wed Dec 21, 2005 1:58 am

Well.. My opinion, for kiting, is that it doesnt matter what breed you are, you just need some buffs and you are all good... Every breed can kite well... Difference among the breeds isnt that big when kiting, you see it when you try to take mobs without kiting. Kiting is something where you just have to learn it and use your skills to do it.
Tyranii wrote:If you're taking on Much higher level than you. type of mobs, you probably wont evade much/anything if you're not an evade prof with SL (<3 Acrobat perkline). Maybe a very rare hit, but it'll be extremely rare. Evades only protect you from not being critted, or not as much, if you cant evade the hits.
Hp wont help you there either... But when you fight mobs that are your level (where you have chance), evades are useful. I haven't seen many 220 NTs that go for hp setup over evades... But, they dont kite... So it really doesnt matter what you chose, you wont have problems with kiting if you know how to kite.
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Post by Ferengi » Thu Dec 29, 2005 8:24 pm

Sferykal wrote:Some comments:
  • You are in constant lack of IPs. If you think it gets better past 50 you are mistaken. Infact, the IP "hole" up to 50 is not even half that bad compared to what you will experience past 50. You will get true relief once you hit the TL 4 skillcap (level 125), until then happy IP saving :P
the mob hits you for a minimum damage amount, roughly the mobs level
Since I have my soldier with high ACs, I always check the damage I receive, and this "formula" just doesn't work. Some mobs hit me for like twice if not three times their level damage, others hit for half or even a third of their level damage. Funny thing is, latter ones may even have higher level than first ones ... so ... pfff ... "roughly" :P
Yup, the IP pool I had saved is being slowly used up in the current levels, looks like I will be nearly out about the time I hit the 40s level capping.

It's pretty easy to verify that when you have sufficient AC, you take constant damage from all the mobs of the same level. You probably need more AC.
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Post by Ferengi » Thu Dec 29, 2005 8:31 pm

Picsel, HP is of enormous value when those crits show up. Maybe your kite pack (if you actually have an NT) isn't very large, but I like the ability to ignore several hits when trying to take out the slow part of the kite.

Been running the Lush Fields mines since leaving the subway, 2-3 kites of a handful of 'red-line' mobs are good for quick level. I don't have the Cartrox nano problem for the reasons previously mentioned, plus I can easily use a nano stim when my HE runs out (since I forgot to renew before taking another kite :oops: ). The biggest problem I'm getting is boredom, it's too easy :D

I nearly fell out of my chair laughing at 'Sirfixalot' when he attempted to KS just one of the mobs in my kite. The single eye-mob had a 1-hit kill, then returned to the kite.
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Post by Picsel » Fri Dec 30, 2005 2:37 am

Ferengi wrote:Picsel, HP is of enormous value when those crits show up. Maybe your kite pack isn't very large, but I like the ability to ignore several hits when trying to take out the slow part of the kite.
I dont say hp isn't important, but its not the only thing that helps in these situations. Evades are pretty nice. I am not sure about low levels, I never kited at low levels, but I still think evades can help a lot. So its probably the best to have balanced hp and evades.
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Ferengi wrote: The biggest problem I'm getting is boredom, it's too easy :D
The main reason why I dont kite... It's like playing a melee trox adv :P
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Post by Ferengi » Fri Dec 30, 2005 6:55 am

Picsel wrote:
Ferengi wrote:Picsel, HP is of enormous value when those crits show up. Maybe your kite pack isn't very large, but I like the ability to ignore several hits when trying to take out the slow part of the kite.
I dont say hp isn't important, but its not the only thing that helps in these situations. Evades are pretty nice. I am not sure about low levels, I never kited at low levels, but I still think evades can help a lot. So its probably the best to have balanced hp and evades.
"thinking" isn't sufficient when IP is rather short. My testing shows the 4 evades are rather useless for most kites [mentioned in other posts]. Evades are for the end game, which may be where you are playing (against the 180+ mobs).
Picsel wrote:
Ferengi wrote:(if you actually have an NT)
Hint: my signature
:lol: I couldn't remember which one of the thread posters actually had an NT

Picsel wrote:
Ferengi wrote: The biggest problem I'm getting is boredom, it's too easy :D
The main reason why I dont kite... It's like playing a melee trox adv :P
It's much better than 1 on 1 killing and dying as a weak nanomage. I'm not so fanatic about implants, the various vastly overpriced twink items mean nothing to me as a result, I just gain another level or two instead. It's cheaper, I'm not buying a new nuke every other level, and cashing in the drops pay for the first-aid consumables. I think I should cure the boredom by working out inside for awhile, ToTW loops that I've thought about or maybe spice up the endless sandworm trains there with a cyborg or something 8)

I'll be updating the first post now with the character plan, etc.
Adios, thanks for the fish

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Post by Ferengi » Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:40 pm

Picsel wrote:this is it... nanomage sucks... It will be easier to play with trox than with nm...
So far, I'd agree that nanomage sucks at missions, compared to atrox. Outdoors, the bigger nano pool and the initial boost to INT give the nanomage the opportunity for better AOE nukes without instantly draining the nano pool. Outdoors, it's NM > trox for me.

I can see that in PvP, atrox > nanomage, but I don't see where the breed with no advantages can come out #1.
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Post by hellscream » Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:57 am

lol its not no advantages ... its got a bit of everything , as far as kiting is concerned i think its all on speed ... if u run fast enough no mob will hit , thus no use of evades or max hp
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Post by Tarradax » Wed Jan 25, 2006 3:13 am

Well, if kiting is all about running around like a headless chicken while a horde of angry mobs is chasing you for no other purpose than to squash you into a small PJ-wearing puddle, atrox is the choice. If you'd rather have a Stand-and-nuke NT, Opi is it thanks to the evades. Solitus/Nanobreed are both kinda bonus-less in this area, but while solitus atleast don't suck at anything, nanogimps do.
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Post by Sferykal » Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:33 am

Tarradax wrote:Opi is it thanks to the evades.
I hear this statement often, yet fail to see the truth behind it. Afterall, your profession decides how much IP you have to spend into evades, and the final trickledown difference is like 10 to 20 points, depending whom you choose to compare with. That at evades of ~600. (base values at level 200, maxed, no implants, no buffs, no nothing). I doubt the difference will be actually visible, unless you play along and use a lot of evade-enhancing equipment (which you can use on the other races as well). To set it into relation: MAs have about 100...120 more in evades at that level under the same conditions, not to talk about they use up 500k IP less for having their evades maxed.

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