NT weapons?

Eden
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Post by Eden » Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:20 pm

..... sorry my bad ... no i was thinking about the AS-90 for mostly PVP as an alternative to say a zastaba or X-3. In the normal course of events in PvM I may idly stab at a few special keys but i doubt if I'd even bother to attack on any regular basis - my nukes are quite sufficent. Oh and ofc .. regular damage is going to be of little importance, just really getting it for the specials.

I did notice with your weapon of choice it didn't have Aimed Shot and despite healthy top end damage the minimum sucked, burst cycle is low but recharge twice that of the AS-90.

So as an alternative to say a Zastaba or X-3 .... what do you think?
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Post by Blutblume » Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:09 am

Don't think AS-90 will work for pvp. You'll miss burst and FA on most non-green players and with a max damage of 123 AS will only hit for low.

Even if you sacrifice nano targeting helper for a 275 scope, A TL5 NT will only have 1100ish AS skill, so about 19sec AS recharge on AS-90.

I did some testing with Ithaca (211 max damage) and AS did only 1000ish damage every 26sec. One shot with Maw between nukes did more damage over time than one AS every 26sec.

Rifle+AS won't work good either, because rifle and AS clusters conflict in shiny+bright slot.

A good AS gun is Superior Sapphistic Bow. Decent recharge and good max damage. You can also use Special arrows with it.

NTs are fine at froob pvp, one AS every 20-30sec won't make a difference. I'd say a gun with good damage and kizzers every 30sec works better than AS.
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Post by Ferengi » Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:37 am

Eden wrote:What about a BBI AS-90 Gold Star Tell me what you think please, don't want to go to all the trouble if someone's tried it and found it awful :)
Get one.

Copy toon to Test.

Find out for yourself.

Everyone is mentioning other guns in comparison and I've found that thinking to be faulty. Trying out the weapon is the only reliable test, too many weapons work better/worse than someones guesstimate calculator.
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Post by intrus » Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:29 am

as a froob i would go for O.E.T. Co. Jess and soft pepper pistol.
at least this setup till i can self cast all NTs nanos.

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Post by Eden » Sat Aug 30, 2008 1:52 pm

Well, after skateing around this issue for quite some time I elected to go with the "safe" option as far as I am concerned, SOL K-94 Monsters. So at level 178 out came the nano targeting helper in went the HUD Upgrade: Enhanced Target Acquisition.
Multi Ranged was a pain, I couldn't manage enough for a Crimson Monster in the off-hand, I could have squeezed a QL195 on but the best I had was a QL192.
Also you may note, if you check my sigs that I got my Cloak of the Reanimated Illusionist upgraded too ... now have four of the five lights lit :).

What attracted me to the K-94 is the ability to use a QL 200 without having to resort to tripple implanting pistol skill. With the K-94 I only needed to use the shiny cluster for pistol skill. Burst was more of an issue, because of the conflict with Multi-Ranged I was only able to double implant burst prior to equipping the guns, after they were on I swapped the wrist implant back to burst.

Performance wise the K-94 isn't too bad but equally it isn't spectacular, there again it wasn't intended to be. On 1st floor IS mobs regular hits are 500-1k, bursts 1-2k, pretty weak I admit but as "added bonus" damage ontop of my main arsenal of nukes it's a significant increase in my overall damage.

I like 'em okay sofar.
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Post by EDTA » Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:25 pm

I recently dinged 150 and I start to have extra IP. It's still a bit too soon to put a weapon on, but I already started to look out for one. My plan is to kite myself to 174, then twink for pvp and do some BS/tara/other pvp. After that I go to 200 doing team mishes. For that I'd like a pvm, DD setup. Merely for joining in raids I would like to be top damage dealer so the thing is that I want a weapon that does a lot of damage ;). I guess reseting when I go from pvp to pvm setup will be a good choice.

I'll first discuss what I have researched so far, then I'll ask some questions and hope some& discusses my research ;).

Rifle
* No cluster-overlap with MC
* 120+ from agent
* AS hits in pvp

Gluegun - C02 Chem. damage, stun proc
Superior Yatamutchy X-3 Counter-Sniper Rifle Seems to do more damage
Hand Crafted Unionist Arbalest Merely just in this list because I like crossbows more then pure rifles.

Grenade
* No cluster-overlap with MC
* 120+ from engi
* a LITTLE extra damage from grenades that I throw
* grenades go BOOM!

GE ME30 Mom - C01 Chem damage, looks funny
Extra Sweet Chocolate Surprise Hmm, chocolate! Damage might be ok when duel wielding. Funny. To bad for the short range.

2h edged
* Nu cluster-overlap with MC

Enhanced Queen Blade
* Seems best damage so far, and it's chem damage.
* Being melee is a big problem

Pistol
* Bright and Faded cluster overlap with MC
* 120+ from engi and 40+ from soldier
* Easy when I would want to use buffing pistols for certain situations.
* Cheaper IP
* Seems a somewhat classic choice, which I don't like

Two-Layered Saturated Metaplast Six-Shooter Decent damage, independent of target AC's.

Shotgun
* Bright cluster overlap with MC
Maw of the Abyss Seems to do good damage.

----
I believe AR is pretty important, so I tried to mention all things that are profitable for high AR like implants and available buffs.
If I mention "Chem. damage this is because of Lick of the pest (-5000 Chem AC debuff). Before lvl 185 Fire damage might be better because
Izgimmer's Enveloping Flame (probably best nuke then) comes with -300AC debuff. But that's not really worth a lot I guess.
----

Questions:
* Any idea how much AC raid mobs typically have? What value should I use for damage calculators and how important is high min damage in froob raids?
* Does AS work in big raids when I don't really have concealment? I'd guess you wouldn't detect some guy on 35m distance going into sneak modus if there is 20 broad atroxes in a small circle around you, hitting with various objects. Though I fear AO-reality might be less logic then Real-Life reality.
* How bad is being melee? How good is tank usually able to hold argo? What raid targets don't allow me to use melee unless I can take a lot of damage (because of AoE nukes), I believe Biodome and Hags, any others?
* In 150-174 BS, would there be a lot of people that don't really have a lot of Duck. exp. (since this is considered the least important evade skill)? I doubt, but if so, I might go grenade or shotgun; even for pvp.

My far from decided thoughts for now are to go rifle for pvp and go grenade afterwards. But I have to check out some things; any of the other choices probably does more damage then grenades since I have often read about grenade being a bad choice. I might use test server to test a few things out.

I feel like I have much more to say and to ask, but I'm just gonna keep it here for now.
Any advice will be very much appreciated.
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Post by Vabla » Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:10 am

EDTA wrote:Questions:
* Any idea how much AC raid mobs typically have? What value should I use for damage calculators and how important is high min damage in froob raids?
* Does AS work in big raids when I don't really have concealment? I'd guess you wouldn't detect some guy on 35m distance going into sneak modus if there is 20 broad atroxes in a small circle around you, hitting with various objects. Though I fear AO-reality might be less logic then Real-Life reality.
* How bad is being melee? How good is tank usually able to hold argo? What raid targets don't allow me to use melee unless I can take a lot of damage (because of AoE nukes), I believe Biodome and Hags, any others?
* In 150-174 BS, would there be a lot of people that don't really have a lot of Duck. exp. (since this is considered the least important evade skill)? I doubt, but if so, I might go grenade or shotgun; even for pvp.
* Well min damage is very important in froob raids since in the raids where your damage matters you'll be hitting for the minimum.
* I wouldn't rely on AS in raids. It's either one shot for a 10 minute killing time like with the mercs or too much bother like in HI. And it's extra aggro that you don't want.
* Melee isn't a big problem with a decent force. As for AOE nukes it's hags, biodome, IS, ian war. Don't forget you got a detaunting nuke that'll make your life in raids easier.
* Depends on the people there. The PVP twinks will most definitely have it maxed but the s10 twinks or just random leveling toons will most likely not. But it'll still be lower than other evades.

And don't go grenade. There just aren't any good guns for it. And I think chocolate surprise has only one bullet loaded into it that you can't reload after the first hit... Not to mention it's sloooow. Oh and did you consider 1hb/1he? :P
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Post by EDTA » Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:29 am

Grenades and rifle seems to be the skills I can get highest --> highest AR.
Casting a nuke stops the weapon from preparing for a hit and makes it restart, which makes me loose damage. So it's would be a good thing if nuke and weapon 's timing are synchronized somehow. I still have to test what things exactly stop what process and how I synchronize best, but having a 1/1 weapon might not be the best choice. And having weapons duel wielded complicates the synchronizing a lot/ too much.
I didn't research 1hb/1he yet, and I guess this is why.

Edit: for grenade, an upgraded* weapon seems good since the relative high min damage. Did anyone tried them out?
*as in 000 upgrades, but the final version is called C01 instead of 000
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Post by Vabla » Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:53 am

Cast nanos during weapon recharge. Then it doesn't reset it but only delay for the cast time. Same for when dual wielding.

Even the upgrade ones aren't that good. Might as well go with a maw for way higher min and max damage.
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Re: NT weapons?

Post by EDTA » Sun Feb 22, 2009 4:23 pm

I was wondering how much AR I would have with every skill. So I tried to calculate how much of every skill I can get. I went to AO Skill Emulator 3 and checked what base skill a nanomage NT has. Then I took nanonanny and I looked how much skill I would get by ql 200 imps when the slots for mc and nano-init are taken. Then I went to auno.org and did a quick search what I could get from setup: this one ain't to exact since some items where discarded for clashing with other parts that for example give mc and these decisions where made rather fast. Last I looked at Hansoo's guide to see what buffs are available for every skill. +++ and you get a table as shown below.

skill base imps setup buffs total

1h blunt 534 210 33 107 884
1h edge 534 210 33 20 797
Piercing 534 210 30 20 794
2h Blunt 593 168 9 107 877
2h Edge 593 210 9 20 832
Melee Energy 600 105 69 20 794

Grenade 659 147 13 140 959
Heavy Weapons 535 147 13 20 715

Bow 537 168 59 20 784
Pistol 657 105 65 180 1007
MG/SMG 595 105 31 28 759
Shotgun 595 147 25 20 787
Assault Rifle 474 105 30 80 689
Rifle 537 210 17 140 904
Ranged Energy 544 42 13 90 689

Material Arts 599 210 42 80 931
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Re: NT weapons?

Post by Agentcrt » Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:40 am

With 900 AR you wont hit much anyways even on RK raids... you'll need at least 1.2k (and i'm talking from my own personal experience), and even then you will be missing more than a lot :D

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Re: NT weapons?

Post by Tarradax » Mon Feb 23, 2009 4:52 am

Actually, if this was a raiding-oriented setup, I'm thinking you can get enough AR to be useful.

First, if it's a raid, you're not going to be tanking. That means you can add +60 AllOff from swapping offensive clusters instead of defensive ones - None of them clash with MC or nanoinit so you can nuke in peace.
Second, if you're going to account for buffs (Again, raid) then you might as well include FAT. That's +44 AllOff.
Third, using Edta's NT as a template, we're talking about a neutral NT. So with some farming and good will (Again, consider endgame raiding purpose) a set of Proactive armor adds +29 AllOff (Replace Proactive Gloves with Azure Gloves for +6 more net Pistol gain).

Now: Base IP of 657. 105 from Shiny cluster. 20 from expertise. 120 from EP. 40 from PM. That totals to 942.

With the suggestions I've added above we're looking at 942 + 60 + 44 + 29 = 1075 AR with pistols.

Add in a Pistol Figurine (+7) and a Reanimated Illusionist (Non-TL6 variant, +14 Pistol). That's 1096 AR.

All this leaves us are the weapons themselves... Say, a Master Engineer Pistol (Which remains one of the most awesome pistols around, +4 MC and +220 Nano for the purposes of NT usefulness) and a Parasitic Hecataleech.

Alternative option would be a QL199 SOCOM (+20 Pistol) instead of the Hecataleech for an end result of 1116 AR - Even with a low-bullet FA, the fast SOCOM cycle would be interesting to watch... Not to mention that its Proj damage so you benefit from the +Damage soldier buffs.

So here we are at a potential of 1116 attack rating... Close but not quite. If you have a fixer or agent to keep the target loaded up on LFF (-85 to all evades) or PM (-78 DodgeRNG), a crat for a Heroic Measures speech (+100 AllOff AoE) or even an advy for Calia's Sabertooth (+40 AllOff) you can pretty much guarantee closing the gap by either buffing yourself or debuffing the target.

I've not accounted for traders and Team Wrangles since I doubt any trader would cast them in a raid, but if they do then you might as well add +132 Pistol on top...

Voila. A whole bunch of attack rating attainable for a TL6 NT - With an ideal setting of buffs/debuffs/wrangles we're looking for an effective attack rating somewhere in the 1300-1400 range. Pew pew?
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Re: NT weapons?

Post by EDTA » Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:01 am

It is indeed with raiding in mind that I made this. The idea is that you indeed need a lot of AR to be able to hit something which makes this table important for choosing. The famous RK1 NT Blutblume uses shotgun and I can't imagine him hitting a lot. Add All off is not calculated in the table and you can get a bunch from there indeed. Though you must also keep in mind that you can't change too much to this setup if you want enough mc and nano-init to cast resonance blast - you have to make choices of course. But 60 from imps and 40 from smugled nanite merite board are very possible.

To hit more often you also could use "Gravitational Anomaly" to get -200 evades, but since it does 3x less damage then resonance blast it might not be too nice :P. At the other side it helps the whole raid force :).

Master engineer Pistol is my favorite for now and I'd equip it with a pistol that has no bullets, but gives a buff (mc or pistol-skill). I think 2 shooting pistols would lead to interruption by nuking, too often.

Anyway, with all the buffs and so on you should be able to get some nice AR :).
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Re: NT weapons?

Post by EDTA » Sat Dec 11, 2010 9:59 am

Bringing this back up since I'm trying to chose a weapon. The master Engineer pistol is on and seems decent. In my other hand I have a ql 145 six-shooter for now, which is decent, but it constantly needs to reload which is not good. During the recharge of Resonance Blast both pistols can shoot once. I went to testlive to try pain of patricia (so I didn't had to waste IP) and while this gun was amazing against low hp targets (it also resulted in both guns shooting during nanorecharge + has burst and fling shot), the damage against high AC target's was very low. I had hits of only 140 usually.

So anybody (non-NT's as well) have any experience with using pop at raids?
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Re: NT weapons?

Post by Goldberg » Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:03 am

I really have no expirence with nt weapons, i always had some pistols on, but i guess for raids you should go for something with high min dmg, and for that i would try 2 solar pistols (and if im not mistaken there is no reload with these)
was wondering how much inits you need to cap res blast as froob ie 1 sec.... so my calulations you need to have 1.8k nano init reduce casting by 7 secs (6*200 +1*600 ) and full agg takes another sec, am i correct? and if so, how much nano inits your lacking to cap?
also, im not sure if that will get you to the top dd list, its hard to get you mc high enough to land every nuke (that always bothered me as a NT...the "low AR" on mc :/)


Edit: correct myself, full agg takes 0.25 sec..which means you have to cover that with inits.... so 0.75*600 = 450
so need 2250 nano inits to cap full agg ... (damn thats alot!) guess the best you can do as froob to cap it 1.75sec which isnt bad eitherway :)

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